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BIGCATTER.
I have recently seen some discussion of this elsewhere and for those interested here is what we know thus far for all of us in the LR district- 1) A certain list of marinas in the Little Rock District have leases that are tied to a national lease structure out of the D.C. office. That list is 65 marinas in Arkansas/Missouri and will be available on the Corps site soon.2) These leases vaguely “guarantee the safety of” the things kept in these marinas.3) 2004- 2007 fishermen, marina owners, USACE, agfc, missouri gfc agree that gas docks off limits but stalls are legal. This was basically an attempt to define a distance that marina owners would feel was safe. No one was happy so it was a good agreement.4) A marina owner at Bull Shoals then spearheaded a push to go back on this agreement without discussing it was the above group. Ill let the larger powers in this fight decide if folks should be named.5) According to USACE tours- many seats torn up at marinas, lures, hooks, and such easily found. Marina owners even sent lures to USACE. Claims made of cowlings with dings on them from lures.6) Colonel Jackson decides to makes stalls off limits without calling all sides together because he is told that he legally has to “maintain safety” as seen in lease agreement. Legal office tells him corps is potentially not upholding their lease if he doesnt find a better way basically.7) Col Jackson makes the stalls off limits TO ANYONE for anything other than ingress/egress. Marina owners, boat owners, fisherman, martians- cant do anything within 50 of one of this list of marinas. So folks that like to swim or fish off of their boats at these marinas are also in violation of 1130-2-57 as well. Basically he took the toy away from both kids. LR Corps has no desire to extend this to private docks as they dont have a lease that “guarantees safety” so to speak for these folks. They really dont have the manpower to do it nor do they seem to want to.The Colonel also made it very clear that if the structure of these leases were changed in DC he would be happy to enforce whatever the home office put forth. But if he is told that he is not keeping up his legal duty as the leesor hes potentially in breach of contract9) Roughly the 65 docks are:1) A ton at Norfork, Table Rock, BullShoals(10-15 each lake) 2) 2 at Millwood 3) 3 at Dardanelle 4) 8-10 at GreersNo question that a joint meeting was clearly a better way to handle this. Open discussion would have been far better. But he was faced with a legal push that he had to maintain the safety of these boats and certain marina owners were playing the case quite hard on him that the corps was not upholding their legal duty in the lease.Col Jackson and his staff made it very clear that they do not think this is the work of tournamet fishermen but they felt like they had no option legally if the marina owners are gonna push this with threats that the corps isnt upholding their leases. Stuff appeared to be getting torn up and Im sure we can all debate who was doing it for what reasons.There will be quite a bit of back and forth about this to come but thats the summary thus far.It aint pretty but it aint what I thought it might be initially. I sent a letter to Sen. Pryor regarding it and have recieved Col Jacksons response to Pryor and my letter. It was far less informative than just meeting with the man which honestly is what I wish I had done. Rest assured that BASS(Chris Horton), the Federation(Ron Plate/Bobby Davenport), and AGFC(Oliver, Armstrong, Dennis) are working VERY hard regarding this issue and this is just the beginning of the process. I do think Col Jackson is someone we can work with.REALLY AND TRULY GUYS I THINK THIS IS LARGELY AN ISSUE WITH CERTAIN MARINA OWNERS. THEY PUSHED THE ISSSUE UNILATERALLY WITHOUT DISCUSSING IT WITH THE FOLKS THEY HAD JUST MADE AN AGREEMENT WITH.Rick, Ron, the Federation, and AGFC have far more insight into this than I but as I saw a question elsewhere I figured Id drop a post for those that might be interested in an update/summary. WardLast edited by clownshoes on March 2nd, 2009, 4:52 am, edited 2 times in total.C.O.D. Jr. III
Thanks, Ward. If this is a national agreement lets hope it does not expand to lakes in other parts of the country. Lake of the Ozarks has hundreds of commercial docks, most of which are fished. I have only seen one marina owner at the lake get upset over fishing docks. Most of the marina owners realize that part of their income is derived from fishermen. If tourneys and fishermen in the Little Rock district do not patronize the marinas causing the problem, maybe the marinas would realize fishings impact on thier economy in these tough times. LOZman
LOZ man I think you hit the nail on the head! SQUARELY! Had these marina owners not pushed the issue the Corps has better things to do than write tickets with the small force they have.C.O.D. Jr. III
Ward, Rick had a conversation with another internal staff person on this and we will see if he can elaborate.
I appreciate your efforts on this Ward. The ABA has a great history with the USACOE, so keep up the efforts. The dock owners and users are the key to wearing this out ! D.
I feel your pain Brother. We battle access issues on just about every fishing trip down here. Its really frustrating to have to deal with that on Public waters. Its getting to the point where you fish an area in a Tournament and hope its not considered “private” when you weigh in a big sack ( which I rarely do)!! I just cant understand how there can be some piece of water, wether its a Marina, or a Canal dug for a Subdivision or whatever, that is connected to a natural flowing waterway and the fish can eb and flow with the water into and out of these areas and it is off limits to fishing. It is purely ridiculous. I understand respecting peoples privacy and property. However, if you want privacy and dont want folks around your property, dont build in and around places that have alot of boat traffic. Go live or house your boat out in the boonies somewhere. As D-man said, I also appreciate your efforts on this issue. It will affect all of us around the country if things swing our way on your issues up there. Chris Coupel Paulina, La.Chris CoupelPaulina, La.
I didnt do much. Chris Horton(Bass) and Bobbie D(AR Federation) and AGFC and Missouri parks have worked on this a ton. Just wanted to give folks a follow up about the process. A fair number of folks discussing this around here with all sorts of ideas.C.O.D. Jr. III
This has affected me personally on Table Rock as I was chased out of State Park marina by an extremely rude staff that yelled as if I was a criminal and like I was stupid for not hearing of the changes that were made. This was back in September or October of 08. Be careful out there guys and tight lines!
LOZ man, the USACOE has no jurisdiction at Lake of the Ozarks, but your point is well taken. I was always under the impression that there was some sort of State Water Patrol rule that fishing was prohibited withiin 50 feet within any operable gas dock, regardless of lake, but not sure if that is absolute. Ward, thanks for the detailed history on this matter.
Had to read the last post to see why this was rehashed after 9 years . — Seems as though the phishermen have gotten to the fishermen . —
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