Home › Forums › Bass Cat Boats › Sabre FTD, achieving bow lift, teeter totter affect, WPSI, RPMS and props
JohnM17.
Ive been in my Sabre FTD just over 3 months now. I have about 30 hours on my 175HPDI and feel like I have dialed in WOT give or take .5 mph. However, all that said I am doing more fishing with my brother and have new experiences with the my 18 SabreFTD carrying the load for two large guys. So back to square one solving the puzzle. Here are some thoughts I have with my SabreFTD. First impression is the SabreFTD feels more nose down into the water throughout most of my rpm transition until I get the lift near or close to WOT. This is not a negative but an observation. No hidden messages here at all. Also, I have to trim high on the gauge to get the bow lift if I want to actualize optimum WOT performance. Thats more of a Yamaha characteristic from what I understand. I have been fishing more with my brother lately so there are a newer experiences for me that had me vexed coming out of my newer model Eyra which has more natural bow lift. Also, some of these experiences relate to the 175s LU design vs more advanced SHO LUs with low water pickups (to be detailed later). Again, not a negative but differences on how you achieve your goals. So the transition back to a smaller boat, not bad, has created new sensations regarding performance with a heavy load. When I went to a larger prop (25 Fury vs 24 Fury) hole shot was negligible, lost about 200 rpms at WOT, gained about 1.5 – 2.0 mph depending on the weather and boat load but that was running solo. When I started fishing more with my bro, we are both big guys totaling 500lbs , the boat performance changed noticeably on HOW it got to WOT. Going forward I am going to share my experiences, I am no expert and if anyone wants to explain or correct my SabreFTD/175HPDI thoughts I welcome it. We all benefit!!! Teeter Totter Affect: Carrying the load BassCat Sabre/175HPDIGoing to the 25 Fury (larger prop) on my 175HPDI I struggled with two variables to get LIFT to achieve WOT performance. Due to the LU design of the 175HPDI (not bad but different low water pickups) I had my motor raised to high at 2.5″ below pad. It would work but would really loose WPSI if I trimmed to high. So I thought to leverage more motor weight down by lowering the motor to help create the lift to get the bow up. At least that was my thought. Someone help me here if I am wrong with that idea. Anyway, Lowering the motor back down to 3.25″ below pad really helped achieve my goals to my bow lift sensation. I got more bow lift and maintained really strong WPSI so that issue was eliminated but I still struggled with heavy loads to get lift. However, occasionally, I couldnt get the nose up and would loose about 10mph and not achieve the RPMS with my 25 fury to achieve true WOT. Eventually, I would get there but it was a struggle through the mid range. So I compromised that 1.5 plus WOT gain with the larger prop and put the 24 Fury back on the boat. My thought was to get more lift I needed more RPMS. So went out yesterday and boy did I see a positive gain with the smaller prop. Hole shot was three seconds (not any higher maybe less and a second faster then 25 Fury), full tank of gas, full load with two big guys and full livewells. The positive was achieving the lift to get the bow out of the water and mid range transition to WOT was noticeably better. So I put the teeter toter balance back to the rear of the boat, the nose had lift for the load bearing dynamics. Doing 65.5 on the GPS with all that weight was impressive to me. So I can only assume more RPMS from the smaller prop really helped the lift. Some of you may already know this. To others I hope this helps.There is no ONE prop from this experiences. However, there are happy mediums. Pick your poison. I know for me for all around use the 24 Fury on my SabreFTD/175HPDI offers many more positives if I carry the load for more then one angler. Let me get a running start before anyone starts to throw the tomatoes.
Heckava report Tom. 3 months 30 hours Im 3 months and 3 hours ….being a norfer sure has my water time limited.
Hi Tom,Awesome write up, Have you tried the Trophy or Tempest Plus? They might be a decent option as they have a lot of lift capabilities. You may even be able to go back to a 25 with one of them. Just a thought after reading your report. Again, thank you Tom for your support on this board!!!BrianBrianHAWG Hunter2013 BassCat Eyra2013 Mercury 250 Pro XS Gen2 L/U
Tom – Ive never used a fury on my Sabre – but have heard its a much flatter running prop compared to a Tempest. Just in theory here – I believe BCB has said that the Sabre uses trapped air for bow lift. If the Tempest is a more natural bow lifting prop – wouldnt it make more of the hull available to lift the boat at lower speeds. Using that thought – with its larger diameter, should do better with a heavier load and allow less wetted surface at lower speeds. Im wanting Croxton to do a B&B on one of my Tempests. Ive been told he can get the Tempest to perform equal or better speeds as the Fury while carrying loads better due to the wheel diameter.I found out myself on my setup that lower plate settings dont always equate to better lift and I use my WP gauge to trim by. More trim doesnt equate to more lift on my rig – I lose wp and gain steering torque. Up on the plate means less trim needed to get the same lift. I dont have the same FTD – but mines a DC w/ flippin deck, so we should have similar hull running characteristics. The biggest factor Ive found on mine for running with a load is hull balance. The more weight in front of the consoles, the more difficult it is to achieve lift. In the tourneys I fish, my coboaters always seems to have more tackle than I carry in their daybag that ends up under my flippin deck. It kills the bowlift and makes the boat run flat and keel steer until Im above 55. I keep a rear box empty for them. When I can get them to empty the bag into storage for the day – I can hardly tell the weight is there. The 5 difference in weight placement makes the hull run like a totally different boat.
I just joined the basscat family recently but heres what I would try. I just set up my Pantera Classic/200 Opti Pro XS. I could go with a 26 Fury and hit the high numbers lightly loaded. But I chose the 25 Fury and loaded the boat with tournament tackle and my partner and over 1/2 tank of fuel. Bow wouldnt lift until high speed high trim as you described. But I run the boat in tournaments in the summer and at lower speeds while practicing. Lightly loaded numbers dont help me. Dropping the outboard by approx 1/8 inch incre. at a time, bow lift kept improving until the boat lifts like a dream and feels like a nimble speedster. Remember, the Fury likes to run low. I can run 4800 rpms and 60 mph at light throttle loaded because of the improved lift. I may come up just a smidge to maximize top speed. At about .750 below flush on mine, I hit 72.4 @ 5640 RPM and the bow was lifting like a champ (loaded). I kept going down until am .930 below flush and am sure I am low enough (this is where I see 60 mph @4800 rpms). Perfect for me will be somewhere in between here and .750 below. I will tweak a bit more with full livewells and after getting more seat time with the chine walk. I am not convinced that you are low enough yet for the load. I would stick with the 24 Fury and try to drop the plate in small increments and see how your midrange lift and load carrying ability respond. Of course, keeping as much weight rearward helps, but once again, you have to be able to fish efficiently with the final setup. If you are like me, you dont spend much time lightly loaded at full throttle! Good Luck and enjoy the search. I truly have had a blast working on mine so far.Last edited by nightcaller on March 4th, 2012, 7:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Hey Tom, John M. saved you a lot of trial and error with an FTD/175 setup..LOL I have heard Croxton suggest many times the Tempest will carry a load better than the Fury. I usually take speed runs by myself and only do 1 or so tourneys a year, so for me its keep the 25 Fury on. It was good to see your experience with lowering and trim with a load to see if it would work any better as I was wondering what it would do for my limited tourney schedule-so Thanks, John
Great report. I always learn from your posts on performance. Still going to be several weeks for us Norfors to get out there.
Nice detailed and thoughtful report Fly. I have the same “digging” issue with my PIV with a heavy load and two people at mid range RPMs. I am running the 25 Fury and it will run great light at WOT. I am only running off the belly tank and dont have any fuel in the two kickers. Thought about filling those up to get the weight aft. I hate to kill my WOT #s but I need better lift at mid range (4000-4800) with the full load like you are experiencing. Dont mean to hijack your thread just wanted some ones opinion on a 4 Blade for a 3.3L Yamaha HPDI.
Totally different hulls and the Tempest may not perform on a BCB hull as Croxton supposes. Try a 25M Yamaha Tom then a 25T.
I ran a 24 & 25 Tempist on my Sabre FTD and still found the 24 Fury the heavy load champ. Mark can suggest which Yamaha prop will work best for your situation. May even want to give one of his Razors a try? Im bumping the rev limiter on my Cougar in the cool air with the 25 Trophy and thats OK, when it warms up and both of us get in the boat the RPMs will come back down, Ill have the hole shot, rough water handling, and speed for with the load. I try to prop my boats this way.
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