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Thought i start a new thread for my questions. These are strictly my opinions and they are not worth much but just my observations. After reading about the P2 special package ones mind has to wonder. 3 inch trailor, 7 inch graphs. Really? Why this route? Seems like everyone is focusing only on the premium line of boats. Wat about the guys that dont have to have a 20 plus ft boat. Though want some of the nicer amenitys? Then if you wanted to add back a 4 inch trailor and say larger graphs and a few other extras your near the cost of the “premium” line. Almost like. For the smaller boat guy , well i guess the percentages are so low and sales are in the premium line.
I was hoping to see a few changes in the p2. Even though the p2 is tried and tested as it is. Fast and really the perfect rig. Though a few simple or wat seems to be simple. A rear deck lid with bullet style hinges. A cooler and livewell without the heat sinking latches. A small day box. Maybe a nice step pad on the front area for entering the boat.
I still love my p2. Would only change a few things. But for the most part I’ve so to speak customized it for my liking. I generally dont buy stuff to resale. So my likes are just my likes.
Redngoo I’m sure that the “Advantage Elite” pkg. is still available for the P2. Then just add the electronics you want, steps etc. and there you have it. I’ll bet that it would be an easy project to add the bullet hinges to your P2 also.
PII upgrades I would like to see.
-Rear cap designed like the Classic to use the flip down type ladder, allowing removal of SS vents on either side.
-As stated above, foot placement spot on the bow for front entry.
-Enlarge the bilge access and make lid removable.
-TM pedal adjustable.
-New type latch for ice chest.
-Day box on front deck.
-or design it as a 19 foot Eyra!!!
As for the PII SP, I think a 3 inch frame trailer will save on price and be durable. I would rather a 9 or 10 inch Helix, than dual 7’s.
Just a few thoughts on the PII. As is, my PII is still the Cats Meow!!!
I wouldn’t mind seeing a top cap redesign on the PII. The hull I still believe is the best hull you can buy in that size. In a couple years I will be buying a new cat again. Haven’t rode in a new Classic but I absolutely loved how my PII handled and rode. From what I understand the Classic doesn’t quite drive the same.
On the other side of that I could see a PII redesign pushing the costs up more. I would like to see more or less a smaller Eyra cap on the PII hull. LED handrails, same color scheme styles with the stripes on top and even the coffin lid center compartments. I just simply don’t want a 20′ at this time mainly due to storage and how I fish.
Honestly i meant the post as no negativity! I’ll say and always say the p2 and p4 is the best in their class. I just thought a trinket here and their on…..well the p2 would be nice every know and again.
No doubt we all have our minds released and free of obstructions on the water. Thus passion plays hard here as we value our free time and relaxation. We here all strive to be on the water and enjoy the emotions… that tic of the line. Others relax by looking over an expanse of a valley or viewing miles of openness for relaxation. Some swing a golf club, in frustration, while others spend all summer preparing, just to drive the hunt inside them a few months, or days, each year. That’s why we all are here as we are sharing a passion for what we enjoy on the water.
Which is why we are all challenged by limiting options in our choices as it is an important part of who we are. These little things are big things to each of us in our free space and time. They are important to the values we want our families to share. Yes, we understand this question so let us spend some time on it.
The Pantera IV model died an excruciating death to the price (cost) wars, with used boat demand topping through the roof for value. The model slipped into the abyss of low production and used boats were in high demand due to their affordability in that climate. Amazingly the Caracal was headed a similar path early on till 2017, it was a very slow starter.
The Pantera II will eventually get a ‘booster seat’, so to speak, and grow some amenities. We are very concerned that when we do that the bridge to 19’ aluminum will open and price will drive consumers into aluminum.
For that same reason the future of the Sabre FTD is no doubt under scrutiny and we most likely will dress up the present Margay for cost and design reasons, along the same path as the Pantera Classic. This should keep the Margay able to at least get a portion of consumers in that 17’ to 18’ segment. It is also the reason we are down line considering a ‘Vision’ version of the 20’ series along the lines of the Pantera Classic and Margay.
Affordability is very important to reach a segment which doesn’t know Bass Cat yet. Which is why the Pantera II model was stripped down some and product added that gave it some appeal and value. We had Pantera Classic models being bought by individuals that do not fit that niche. Wanting it to have what a P2 offers and buying to expansive deck for that reason alone.
For us we will continue to carve our niche among those of you who want a better pistol than a Zaurux (fictitious reference), or shotgun produced by Kuhr (fictitious). There is a significant number of core people with a reason to build better products in some segments. Though that segment is shrinking as knowledge of the difference shrinks, and the market over time has shrunk overall as well.
On a BCB product, With USA steel, Top quality resins, Owens Corning Fiberglass, 24 Oz. Carpeting, Syntec vinyls, Premium HK and AOC gels, PPG Paints, tinned wire, 15” wheels (most of line), and pretty much staying top grade as we can. It becomes very difficult to meet the needs against the tier player of volume. The offset variance on marine engines alone is critical and virtually creates a monopoly on pricing, one that now dictates somewhere over 30% of the boat market from one umbrella.
It also makes it very hard to compete against buy cheap, buy Chinese where you can, GP bulk resin at 40% less or more. Just the Vinyl costs can be 30% of ours, not a 30% less number, though 30% of our costs. Carpeting grades can save about 45% and the Chinese fiberglass (Jushi) can also add another 20% or more in glass savings. Just the square drive screws add 35% to our costs and that number was much higher. For example shooting a tapped screw is simpler than the rites in the rub rail, though not as durable, let alone our adding machine bolts with nylon nuts every few feet. Those savings are also passed through other competitive brands under that groups umbrella. Other boat manufacturers are passing on higher costs to others when the big volume player now honestly has the full power of the market. Some make decisions to just offer a lower grade of raw materials and hold the labor higher. We choose to do neither.
Add all of this together, and the labor savings on a lesser build time, and the numbers of a ZitroXun X75 Pro Series (fictitious) can easily be an average of 10%, 15% or above 20% less in the market. Even in some aluminum brands the .078” and .080” pales, when other companies offer .100” and .125” materials at a sequential cost variance.
It is becoming harder to compete as the largest player has limited interest in better, though does have an outside appeal to others and those not understanding the difference in eye candy.
All that being presented are factual challenges we face, and no doubt we will always be continuing the momentum to be more, better and different. This is being driven by everyone in our brands and that includes the youngest staff we have today in their 20’s. Realizing we are unique! It’s exciting to hear Barton drive his strategic plan for R&D, with not wanting to change the out of the box concepts we have. To have Evan come in after college and be a new player after growing up being a part BCB since diapers almost. Cole in his 20’s having a drive for one day running the Lamination and a drive to be the best, better than we are. Scott has a young crew that all strive to improve and he probably is one of the most knowledgeable in the bass industry on networking, graphs, engines and all sonar options.
That’s a little more than an answer to a reason, though it is an answer as to why. When the P2 becomes a question and the P4 pops up, no doubt these scenarios are being thought about by some of you. Everything from a P4 not being 225, to why a Caracal is not 250 rated comes up. These questions bring no answers as there often are no sequential answers.
Every change becomes an exponential influence on another model or option. It’s a domino effect within our product line, and further in our market.We well know that most will not afford a Jaguar that now can range to $150,000 with the 450R.
The markets turning bigger and more expensive at an exponential level. Most of that expense in on options and not our product. Thus the noose tightens on the products ability to evolve as the price constrictions come from influences we do not control. A new Outboard, hydraulic plate, Poles, networking, quadruple screens, larger televisions, dual mount systems, rubber baby buggy bumpers, ping my fish units, virtual vision, and now even geofencing are what the market has.
You have only so much dispensable income to buy a hobby part. That segment of your income is more pie cut by additions of widgets and that dispensable pie (income), being more regulated, makes each slice smaller.
There are no easy answers though this will definitely give you some thoughts.
Have a great weekend!
Rick
Thanks Rick,
This is exactly the reason I own a BassCat. I wanted to buy the best and I wanted it to be all american as much as it could possible be. I was not concerned about it being the cheapest. You get what you pay for. You got it right in my opinion. Keep the path! Hope to meet you someday so I can Thank You in person!
Glen
I meant no negativity either. I was more or less thinking out loud. I very strongly feel like Bass Cat is the best built bass boat you can buy. That’s why when I was shopping used recently I was set on BCB even a 90’s model. I tell everyone that it’s the only fiberglass bass boat I will run. The PII is a very underrated boat in a market dominated by 21’/250hp boats. Everyone that rode in my previous 14 PII was impressed.
Even though I have my own thoughts on the PII, I definitely understand that it would impact price and who would be able to purchase it. I’ll be buying new again in probably two years and even though I don’t “feel” that I need a 20′ boat I will be looking at the Eyra, Caracal and PII.
Thanks Rick for the very detailed insight.
I will also say that Bass Cat shines even to non bass people, my mom and step dad have a place on the White River and visited the factory with us a couple years ago. One day while my son and I were fishing on Bull Shoals they visited another much larger factory with my wife and daughter. My wife and daughter had to stop the tour because they couldn’t breathe in the shop due to fumes. But my mom and step dad both commented on how BCB seemed to pay much closer attention to the build process and that it just seemed like a better built boat.
BCB is doing something right because my mom and step dad have no knowledge of or interest in bass fishing or bass boats. BCB made an impression on them.
Rick
Thank you for your response!. This sheds some light. As stated no negativity on my part. Ive only own basscat. If it i was buying again it would another cat. The quality just stands on its on. I understand its a tuff market. Trying to stay with quality vs. Cheap materials material being a challenge on its on!. Again thanks for the detailed explanation. BCB strong!.
I have to say reading this it makes me feel good that Bass Cat doesn’t just have someone assigned to answer these questions. I have ordered a brand new Caracal that just went into production yesterday. I feel even better about my decision after reading what Rick wrote. Thanks for the insight Rick
Thanks Rick, just keep building high quality boats.
We do have a regular staff assigned to monitor the boards about 20 hours a day. Anyone overlapping can jump in and often that includes Jason, Kevin, Dallas, Joe or even Rick at times. They all have the access as well as those staffers assigned.
All I know is I don’t see other manufacturers reaching out to their customers or potential customers on any of the forums. Tells you a lot about BCB as a company!
As always, great insight into the mind of the man that drives the future of BCB.
Without the knowledge of sales numbers, (BCB’s three 19 foot boats) and where market is headed, I can see the challenge of spending R&D funds on the PII. It seems the market is moving to the wide body platforms. Personally, (for the water I fish) I see no need for a wider bodied boat than my PII. In fact if I went to a 20 foot BCB it would be the Eyra, which is slightly more narrow at the bow than the PII.
I can say from my own research and experience, Aluminum boats offered nothing in quality, stability, rough water ride, and ease of movement by the wind as compared to the PII for the price. My personal opinion is aluminum boats have priced themselves very close to the glass market.
I’m proud to be a part of a company that thinks like I do. Strive to be the best. Make the little things count. Quality will always leave a lasting effect rather than a poor product and a cheap price. Once you win over a client/buyer, customer satisfaction brings brand loyalty which in turn leads to more buyers due to word of mouth.
I have met some of the staff the Rick mentioned. Its exciting to see young, smart , open minded staff coming to BCB, while learning to keep the core values alive!
Don
I have always thought you get what you pay for, i mean the fact that Rick comes on here and breaks it all down for us, also when i call and talk to Alan in parts and he is probably one of the nicest and most helpful person that i have ever talked to on the phone about anything..my first cat was a 2014 Cougar FTD that i bought very slightly used and have recently sold..i have on order a 2020 Lynx that is north of 90k and sure i could have went with another brand that is cheaper but to me its more than just purchasing a boat..i truly feel that i am part of a family that cares and that is why i “WILL NOT” own anything but a BCB and wear my Basscat ballcap everyday and display my Basscat tag on the front of my truck..when someone asks me “what brand boat do you run” i take great pride in saying, I RUN A BASSCAT and good Lord willing, i always will..so thank you to Rick and the entire BCB staff, i am so happy to be part of the family..
Mark..
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